Men on Fire with Stephen Mansfield

Stephen, thank you for joining us on the confident man podcast. And before we jump into the main focus, I just wanted to ask you, where did your passion for men come from?

That's a great question. I grew up as a military brat, so I had a lot of that kind of manhood presented to me. My father was an exemplary man in that regard, and I also grew up in Sports World three sports a year, all the way through college. So, uh, then after that, I began to get the interest in history, of course, which is to find a lot of my life. And so, in studying Churchill and studying Lincoln, you know, what were their relationships with their fathers? What kind of men were they? You know, what were their weaknesses? Churchill, a great man, but he suffered horrible depressions and almost killed himself once. Lincoln the same thing. So all of those questions began to kind of merge historically with my interest in men. And then, of course, there were my own challenges too. I mean, I don't have any one theme, you know, some big dramatic thing. But just the things we all deal with, I had a father who was, uh, sort of the great Santini. If you've ever seen that movie, a high ranking military man, I knew he loved me, and he was not a horribly abusive or drunk like the great Santini was. But he definitely, uh, resistant and didn't, you know, didn't teach me how to shave and didn't tell me about girls and didn't tell what it was, but have been to be a man. So I got most of that later in life. So I think it was, frankly, my own desire to know what a man is shoved through military culture, jock culture, and then my own historical investigation. In fact, I'm willing to consider that my whole field of history I'm talking about two master's degrees and a doctorate. Um, maybe fueled by my own heart's desire to find out what true man it is. So that's why I've done some of the things that I've done. Yeah, that makes sense. I think a lot of it comes from our own just desire to learn ourselves. And I think in our culture we have so many guys who grew up with no example. And so I talked to guys all the time. When I'm coaching them, they're They're being a dad there being a husband. And their question is, am I doing this right? And they've got no frame of reference. Yeah. You know, I don't know about you. I don't know how old you are. You don't have to tell me on the air, but But you're my My father was of a generation where he was a good provider. He was a heroic military man. But telling me he loved me in the course of a day was just to take the newspaper and smacked me in the stomach light, like, you know, that was how he said, I love you. And I took it that way. I mean, I knew he loved me. Generous at Christmas. Always present. I never feared him walking in my room from either a sexual or violent standpoint. Like a lot of men have those horrible stories. Um, but but still, uh, you learned by watching You didn't learn by having conversations. You didn't. You didn't pick up. You didn't pick up anything by any kind of interaction. You know, God forbid. And then if you don't have any interaction, had to be between commercials of a football game. So, uh, I'm not putting him down. I'm simply saying his generation of men where the guys just had a hard time saying, I love you and, uh, that's that's what I was raised by. So I was raised by a heroic man who profoundly impacted my life. But I was also raised by a man who, you know, had a hard time telling his kids anything. Not just I love you, but just teaching them anything. And I think both my brother and I have had our struggles, you know, just as men in the meantime, that we haven't ended up in prison or done something terrible, but, uh, we've we've had our struggles. So that's that's why I do what I do to make it easier for other men who maybe are still in a nun. Father generation. Yeah, yeah, no, I I get it. That's that's my motivation. Helping young guys. I worked with students for 30 years and saw the need of Dad's in the homes and the lack of dads and how much that meant to them. Um, well, that's good news if I can jump in. The good news on that, though, is that when you have an unfair, fathered young man, the psychologists tell us that other men who step into that young man's life can make as much as 85% difference. They can't. They can't replace a father who is not in the home, but they can make up 85% of the presence and an impact of the fathers at home. Well, that's good news. That's good news. And so that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. So I'll start bothering each other in this. Yeah, and that's and that's it. You try and help guys who didn't have that example, and it helps them learn how to do that to the next generation. And we can change legacies of family that way. That's the exciting part of it. No. Well, there's We're going to talk about band of brothers forming a band of brothers. Why that's so important. But I wanted to start with a quote from your latest book, Man on Fire and it kind of leads into that, says the man who is self defined, who lives only in the light of his own understanding of himself is a fool. Why? Why is a self defined man, a fool, a man who defines himself well? One of the arts of manhood our fathers should have taught us is that we need the eyes of other men upon us. Now we viscerally know this because we don't get good at football without coaches. We don't. They don't just throw nine guys on a baseball diamond and say Play, You know, you gotta have coaches. You've got to have guys who see what you're good at. Hey, he's better at second base. Hey, he's better is the fourth batter. You know, that kind of thing. So we viscerally know that we don't get better at things without help. Conductor's music, teachers, all that kind of thing. But with manhood, we leave it to chance. And so our father should have said your whole life unique. He had to have the eyes of other men on you, not just like coaches to a 12 year old, but other men who care about you and trying to help you become good men. This is part of the art of friendship. This is the art of having a band of brothers. So when a man defines himself when he looks at himself in the mirror and says, I think I'll do this, I think I'm this. I think I'm capable of that. He's being defined by a fool, you know? They tell us we don't even actually see ourselves accurately in a mirror that we're looking at a distorted image of ourselves in a mirror. Well, if that's true in a mirror, for heaven's sakes, then how much is more? Is it true of other aspects of my life? You know, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know that I'm how I mean, Thank God I've got a wife who's fairly blunt with me. And she says, You know, you were You were roughly distant in that conversation or, you know, what do you do with green beans hanging out of your mouth or whatever the thing is, you know? Or that that should just makes you look fat, you know? Don't wear that, and I love it. I love having input. What I don't like is murky, unclear. Withdrawn. Don't tell me the truth, but then distance yourself from me because I've got a booger on my note or whatever, you know. And so that's That's what we've got to have as men. And I've I came to a point in my life where I had achieved pretty well, but I certainly was not the man I was made to be or meant to be for anybody, because I didn't have other men speaking directly to me and keeping an eye on me and saying, No, hold on, what's going on with that or you know what? You know all the illustrations that I've used before, you know, one glass of wine turns into five. I want guys to know that, um, you know, I don't have a problem with language or now, but if you if you're dropping the F bomb, every other sentence and I can tell a lot of anger is behind it. I want to know that you're checking out the back side of the waitress. You need to have somebody who sees you and the problem we have in a lot of our Christian circles. If I may say So is that we tend to have men who have to rely on our own narration. I have to show up on your back porch, tell you what my week has been so that you can coach me. Well, that doesn't work, because I'll lie or I'll forget or I won't get the analysis right or whatever. So a man, a man who defines himself, is defined by a fool in the same way that a man who has his own doctor has got a doctor as a fool. We need the eyes of other men on us. We need the eyes of men of different gifts from ours. I have certain set of gifts pretty good. Yours are better in some other areas. We help each other by bringing our different gifts to the game. And so that's why I wrote that, Yeah, I think that's so true because you know, people I know people who are what I call their kind of unprofessional doctors, where they read a couple articles on the Internet and they're professionals, and they know what the doctor should have subscribed them and everything, and it's like, well, doctors usually kind of know some stuff. Um, but I think we get that way as men where we all know I'm good. I read this one article. I'm fixed now, right? Right. And you know and the other thing, too, is that we got to make a distinction between I can pull a splinter. I can put a Band Aid on a child's knee. You know, I've got I've got Children in my life I do that for but someone who's been molested during their entire teen years. Somebody's got a drinking problem. I don't know that I am equal to that. You know what I mean? Somebody who's suffering horrible can't biochemical depression. I'm not talking about bad circumstances in their life. I'm talking about biochemical. Let's get him to an expert. But But at least guys like you and I and the guy in the life of a third man, we'll see that that experts needed. And the problem in man culture is a lot of guys sitting around trying to dr each other, and I'm not saying you're going to need to whisk him off to the hospital. But a dude certainly can't sit there on his fifth beer and figure out what's going wrong in his marriage. He's going to have to have somebody smack him upside the head and put him with five or six guys who speak wisdom out of their own lives and then getting connected to you know, whoever pastors, counselors, whatever else needs to go on there. Yeah, encouragement. What would you say? How would you define what abandoned brothers is for men? Yeah, and the brothers is a group of men you do life with. But you do it openly so that anything that needs to be addressed in each other's lives to make you better men can be addressed. So you pursue your The most important thing is that you're pursuing noble manhood, great manhood together. But the other thing is that what I call the book the free fire zone. Which means that if you and I are abandoned brothers together, anything that needs to be said anything that needs to be addressed in your life or mine to make us better meant will be along the way. We're having a lot of fun sacrificing a lot of animals. A lot of smack talk. I mean, we're doing life together. We're men. We're not just sitting in a room, staring at each other and saying, How is your day to day George, how are you feeling about that? But we are, uh, in each other's lives and and dealing with it directly. So my brief definition, as much men doing life together, pursuing noble manhood. But the most important thing is they've gone beyond the niceties to wear anything that needs to be addressed or coached can be. And that has changed my life. You know, there are guys that are amazing fathers of daughters in my life, and I have a good relationship with my daughter. But I'm better now. I'm better now. I have a good relationship with my son, but I'm better now. Um, whatever. Whatever my wife would say about me being a husband, I'm better now than I was before. You know, Uh, it's because men have come up to me and said, What's up with you? Or, you know, you just look bored what's going on with you or, you know, that kind of thing and it makes you a better man. So that's what abandon brother says. Yeah, why do you think it's so hard in our society today for for guys to have that band of brothers to be intentional with that it's partially because we haven't been taught the skills of friendship passed down through the generations. There are there are actual practical skills of male friendship that can be taught that can be transferred. And most I don't mean to blame our fathers in this whole podcast. That is not my point. Um, but but the fact is, they didn't teach us. Um And then, second of all, it is the nature of modern life. Um, it is the fact that I had no problem having friends in high school and college. But you get out of college, you get married, you get a couple of kids, you got a house to take care of. Um, you know, let's say you're not in the church. You don't play a sport. You're just working out down in the basement. But before long, you've only got what the psychologists call rust friends. Which means that guy was in your marriage. Five. Your wedding five years ago or you know the guy. You were your roommate in college. But you ever seen those dudes in five years and there's no dude close enough to look at you and go, What's up with you, buddy? You know, you've got to have You got to be active with men now. And so there are ways you can put yourself into those relationships, have a sport, be active in a church or a place of faith. You know, that kind of all those kind of practical things. Um, heck, even just fishing clubs or whatever hunting clubs or all that kind of stuff. But most men, by the time they get to their late thirties and forties, uh, they are alone and the male suicide rate is skyrocketing in the western world. And when we look at the suicide notes would do the psychological postmortem in almost every case, that's a result of a man being alone. He writes a note and says, There's not a man on the planet who knows anything about my life. I may have his mother. He may have his history, may have women who may be dating girls. What he needs is a man. Men need men. They need women, of course, but to feel whole, they need men. And so that's That's what's causing, I think, the problem. It's a combination of lack of skills and the dynamics of our society, which means we just have to be intentional. It's not. The good news is it's not hard, for heaven sakes. I mean, I teach me in the art of the indirect connection, which just means create some way from into bond without having to do it to correctly, because we don't We don't bond by looking each other's eyes longingly going. How do you feel it, Fred? We bond by playing hoops and we're having a beer or what, you having a pizza around the game or whatever. The thing is, the guys do, you know, going for the job. We bonded directly. Well, anybody can do that. The most shy treated guy can do that. Um, so once we teach these skills, then we Then we start seeing that change. So bad news is men are lonely. Good news is it's fixable. Yeah, and I like what you talk about creating a culture where that happens and you have a story in the book about a guy who saw the need for friends, which I think is key. I think a lot of men just don't even realize, Oh gosh, I am lonely, you know? I know Jim down at the school or whatever, but they don't really have any deep friendships. They have a lot of surface. The friendships, right, right, well, And that's why I insist on asking them about their friends. It's partially because I work with men a lot, but it's also because I really I mean, I can help a guy on an airplane in a five minute conversation. Tell me what? Tell me something. Who's your best friend? Oh, definitely. My first man at my wedding. Joe. Old Joe was the last time you saw him. Oh, 67 years ago. But we talked on the phone once a year. So who really has eyes on you? Who would know if you were thinking, Who would your wife called three in the morning if you were out of town and they needed help, Like somebody you really trust to be at your house at three in the morning, while your wife's flitting around in the 90 and the dogs run away or the kid got picked up in the whatever and I ask those questions. And before long you realize the average dude does not have good friends. I don't speak so much in terms of best friends, because I stopped speaking that way and I left the playground. But in terms of band of brothers, in terms of guys, you can hang with my wife, Bev. I'm not saying I have this all together, by the way, but she knows exactly who to call. If something goes wrong, find misbehave. If I'm out of town, she needs something she's got. I'm telling you, 20 guys who will show up, you know, park their jets in the front yard. Whatever they gotta do, I'm playing. But some of them, some of them got resources. Some of them don't, but they'll be there and they've been there for. And that's a product of me having abandoned brothers, a group of guys that love me, that their wives can do the same, you know, and we'll take care of it. And so that's That's the kind of culture that we need to have around us. But most men don't know how to build. Yeah, I love how you tell the story. The guy who uh, saw the need for that and started rib night and and started made a rib contest just for guys to get together and kind of built that indirect connection to see and let friendships developed from that. Absolutely, I mean the indirect connections, the way men bomb. Yes, you know it is. We're working at the widow's house on a Saturday, and we know the guy who's talking, talking smack and telling stories. But he's not going anywhere. We know the guy who's going to get a drink of water every three seconds. We know the guy who's the quiet guy we really respect and was doing most of the work. We read men in motion. And so that's That's how I feel. When I was playing football back in high school, the guy I feared the most was the quiet guy who was well mannered, mannered, you know? Hey, have a good game and look forward to seeing you. Afterwards. He scared me because he was calm. He was quiet, he was collected and I knew how to read a man, and that was the guy was going to be concerned about during the game. My point is that we we don't. You know, a lot of organizations trying to put us just facing each other. It doesn't work that way. So but the good news is like you say, my friend who just did the rib night he started, he started talking back with a bunch of guys You think you can barbecue. I got you beat nine ways from Sunday. So they started having a contest before law. One of the best band of brothers I've ever seen came up. I've seen the same thing with fishing contest, hunting contest, bench pressing contest just. And it doesn't have to be a contest, but still, the idea that men bond while they're doing something else. Well, how hard is that? Any any shy kid can can order up some pizza and say We're going to watch, you know, America's got talent or whatever, you know, Uh, and and now you got guys doing something. I've been Nashville where I'm from, they do drum circles and guitar picking parties, and Lord knows that we can probably we'd parties, for all I know, given that it's stashed. All I'm trying to say is they get together and that's how they start to figure each other out, you know? Yeah, and that's what I love. I love that. It's It's around doing something and especially competition. Men will compete in anything. Uh, I tell people that you could be winding up a piece of paper and you and your friend are gonna compete who can throw it from the farthest away and make it in the trash can. It means nothing, But to a man, it's important. Well, and I know I know guys in their eighties and nineties who have a competition for mall walking, the local mall opens. I think it's seven or eight in the morning. You know, it's not my locality, but I think, like in the morning for the seniors, only the security let seniors in to walk the mall in a safe thing. And it's a great big mall. So I think one laps, like a mile when they walked every floor. You know all that well. So what do they do? Being men? We got to compete, right? I bet I can kick your butt. I bet I can. I can. I can best you by five minutes. I bet I could, you know, whatever and before long, that's that's how it's going. Well, I love it. These guys are healthier, happier, you know. They meet afterwards to have breakfast at whatever the joint is there and they're doing this every other day and they're having a ball. They're going to live longer. They're going to be happier. They're going to be better men. They're going to be better husbands, fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers. And they're going to be in this case. But in this particular place, closer to God, because they're doing Bible studies and they're they're reading good Christian books and stuff like that. Well, that's that's the art of the whole thing. So we gotta we gotta teach these skills because, you know, you and I have been talking about here for about 15, 20 minutes, and we've already surveyed the basic skills for a man breaking out of his isolation and engaging other men. And so if it can be taught in 20 minutes with two guys batted back and forth, we can certainly pass it on to the next generation. One of the elements you bring up in in the book, talking about a band of brothers is calling in the reinforcements. What does that? What does that look like? Why does a man? Because to me, that gives a real reason of why you need that band of brothers as much as anything else. Well, it's military language, as you can imagine. And that is that if I'm in a battle I can't handle on my own, I call in reinforcements. You know, uh, and I've done that in my life without question. And men need to know how to do it. Men, you know, in the same way that we make the joke that men driving around with their wives don't want to stop and ask directions. Men don't want to ask for help, but I need help. I need men who are more discerning. Um, I have my son and I love each other, but we're very different. Some guys, you know, their sons are like carbon copies of them, and they understand their sons just viscerally. My son is very different from me. But I've got friends who relate to my son very well. And so I'll kind of Hey, how'd you do that? You got them talking. How did you do that? You know, uh, but that's that's how it goes. And then, you know, some guys in my in my group have overcome addictions. I don't have any of those, but other guys fight, so they're like, Yeah, I'm I'm I'm thinking of one guy who said I'm feeling that one whiskey and I creep into three or four. I don't know that I'm an alcoholic, but I better get somebody to talk to me about that. And so we they're meeting on a regular basis. The guys get right. I don't need to mention alcohol so much. It's just an easy example for them. You know, it could be the same thing with your way. It could be the same thing with porn. Could be the same thing with violence and anger. Could be okay, but find a guy who knows what's going on. You know, most most guys try to battle these things alone, and they just aren't capable. Like we said earlier about the doctors, Uh, you know, I don't I don't. And by the way, even even if you are, you know, I've known doctors. Actual MDs who have addiction problems discuss their MDS doesn't mean they can. They discern the problems with being up in their soul. So you gotta have. You gotta have a bunch of guys, By the way, you don't need to have just one guy. You need to have a bunch of guys with diverse gifts, right? I'm a multifaceted dude. So are you. I'd like to have three or four guys with different sets of gifts. Different ethnicities, different backgrounds, different ways of expressing it. I'm as we do this podcast. I'm out in D. C. My church is 90% black. Most of my friends are black out here, You know, they thank God I want. I want the eyes of black men on me. I want the eyes of military men on me. I want the eyes of Asian men on me. You follow what I'm saying. They all bring a different set of gifts and assumptions and ways of dealing with things and maybe more diverse. And I'm not just I'm not doing this because we're all talking about diversity these days in our country I'm talking about I need men from if I have men who are carbon copies of me that I'm going to be able to deceive them I'm not going to be as detectable to them, right? Because they're my tribe. They speak like me. They look like me. They dressed like me. They eat, drink, like, um, I want some guy who's going What are you talking about? You're an idiot, you know? And where did you get that idea? Where'd that come from? I have a black widow say, Where did that come from? In your white man cave back there with driving all the time. What are you talking about? You know, he's like coach, you know, and I love that. I need I need to be smacked around a little bit, you know, reminded that Hey, you came from a very white culture. Um, upper middle class. Well, maybe you need to realize that you're making some assumptions about yourself that aren't true. And he's not putting me down. He's trying to say, you know, there's stuff you guys do that you know, the rest of us out here in another kind of world, we can see more clearly that you can. I love it. I love it and need it. Yeah. No, it's true. Because it's like what you said we can look in the mirror and we see something. But a lot of times when someone sees themselves on video, we're gonna photograph it looks different than what they see in the mirror. But that's that's the real them, you know? Yeah, exactly the way the exactly. That's exactly true. Okay, what have you seen? Um, winding down here. What have you seen that men have done to build their brand of brothers that have been successful? We talked about some of the ways they've kind of started it. But what? Have you seen some things that have made those bands of brothers successful for the long term? What What makes them successful is that they know that they get to know each other, that they take it deeper than just the surface level. They read books, they talk, they watch videos, they go on to go to a cabin for a weekend. You know, when they can make it happen and talk things through, Um, you're you're shooting for that free fire zone, that anything that can needs to be said, we'll be set. But beyond that, uh, they got to It's got to be a lot of fun. There's no reason for not to be a lot of fun. It also needs to be taken to the wives and the Children. I want my Children to know that I'm in a band of brothers who know my life watching out for me that they can call. I've literally given the names of people to my Children. My Children are in their thirties, Um, but here's who to call. You can't find me. I'm misbehaving in some way. I can't imagine what they've been thinking about, Whatever saying with my here's here's that band of brothers and they've known that for years. Um, and the reason is not to brag and say, Hey, I got a band of brothers. Aren't I awesome? The reason is to say, these men have gotten my life now, part of the reason I do that is I want my son to have the same thing for my daughter to have her version of it. Um, but I also want, uh and I wish I had done it earlier in my life. I didn't really do this until after my kids were out of the home. Um, but if I if I had been more aware of the themes I teach now, back when I was younger and my kids were, you know, 10. My daughter there. Anyway, 10 12 13 is about their age back when I'm when I was in my twenties, I'm sorry, thirties. Um then I would have I would have brought them together with my band of brothers, made sure they had firsthand experience with we would have had a we would have had a fest with the wives and eaten and talked. Everybody would have known each other. And, um, you know, we do that in other places. We have company picnics and all that kind of thing. But why don't we have Why why? Why don't why does the man man's band of brothers and you really know each other? And I think that I think that all that would have made a huge difference. But the main thing the main issue for men, is that they break out of the glass isolation that they have themselves in and begin to engage other men in a meaningful level. And, like I said, can start indirectly and start with the jog, start with a hamburger. But eventually you having conversations at deeper levels. And then you get to that that wonderful free fire zone which allows you to help each other. Yeah, well, to me, it it just seems like there has to be some intentionality behind it that you're not just getting together to get together. You actually want to help each other and grow and do things like that create and find guys who feel the same way. I think that's a key. Is finding those men who want that well, and you're going to find men who don't want it. And that's fine. Let them be friendly with them. Let them go on. But if you're if you're asking around the gym you're asking around the company you're asking around the church, you're getting to know guys that seem like candidates, you know? I mean, you're not. It's like trying to kidnap him here. You're just trying to win them to some discussion, uh, a little bit further, and so it can be as simple as you want to go fishing. And then while you're efficient, like, what's your dad ever teach you about? Man? And I've been reading a book about man. It's really on my mind. He looks at you and goes, What the heck are you talking about? He may not be your guy. If he looks at you and says, You know, I've been thinking about the same things. Now you may be able to take the next step. Hey, how about we read a book together? Or how about we at least fish once every two weeks and talk these things out? I could use a little coaching. You might have some wisdom for me. It can be that informal because guys get nervous about it. They go, Oh, my God, how do I do this? And it really can be informal. But every man has got to have a band of brothers. Yeah, and then the last question, How important is it for the next generation for us to model that and then encourage them in it? What have you seen in some ways to kind of help that next generation of our Children have this attitude? You know, it's essential for the next generation and part of the next generations. Criticism of guys my age or age is that we walked too much alone. You know, that generation understands community. Uh, it used to be that I would teach my daughter. I'd ask her a question, and she would. She would quickly text your friends to find out what the answer was. You know, I don't mean a factual question. I mean, like, like, almost humorous. I could say, How do you feel, honey, hang on. I'll find out and she text nine or 10 of her friends. But the good news is, they think corporately, they think, is a group. They and you know, that's the other guys who are feeding the Starbucks Hangout restaurant. They're the guys who are feeding the social media, so it's it's essential we pass it on to them. I believe strongly in initiating the boys, and there's an African proverb. Maybe you've heard it or read it at one of my books. Um, it basically says we must initiate the boys. If we do not initiate the boys, they will burn the village down just to feel its warmth. And that's what's going on in Isis. That's what's going on in street gangs. That's what's going on with these lone shooters who have nobody in their life kill people. Um, we've got a kid boys in their early teens teaching the lower of manhood, which includes the art of a band of brothers, the art of building friends and teach them how to have they have. I think it's one of the ways we're going to reach the next generation. They have a wonderful gift for community, but often they don't. They don't know what that's meant to be. You know, it's a it's a series of beers and empty talk at a bar. We can teach them to do something more significant if, well, it will be engaged them. But they've been right that our generation has been a vacuous, and that's why they've turned to each other. So it's absolutely essential. We teach that generation because they're going to need it. They're going to need it. Yeah, I agree. I agree. Well, Steven, thanks so much for being with us on the confident man podcast. How can guys find out more about you? I appreciate you asking. My personal website is Stephen spelled the only way that ought to be legal with a pH. And then our manhood stuff is all Great, man. So great man. dot TV is the website. There's a great man podcast, etcetera, etcetera. Uh, if you go on great man dot TV, you'll find out about my books and the other things that we other resources we have for guys. Yeah, it's a great podcast. I do recommend it to everybody. Alright, so they shoot you being with us, Stephen. All right, buddy. Good to be with you. Thanks so much.

Such a great interview. And I so appreciate Stephen taking the time to be with us. He's an extremely busy man, but he has such a heart for other men that he agreed to come on the podcast today. Now, don't forget, his book is meant on fire. It can be found at all the usual outlets. And his site where you can learn more about him is or So what we're gonna do is over the next three episodes, we're gonna dive deeper into some of these topics. Next week, we're gonna be dealing with loneliness among men. And what we're gonna do is talk about how a lonely man is a dangerous man. So tune in next week for that Thanks for listening, guys. And please take the time to share this podcast with more men so we can help them. Be more confident.

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